Richard Carrier asks: “What Do Ron Lindsay and an Oklahoma Tornado Have in Common?”

Richard “Dick” Carrier, glorious defender of rationality to his many fans all over the world (this is basically what he says about himself – take a look at the description box on his blog), excreted an article headlined with this awful question not too long ago. In it he describes his feelings of reading the responses to a speech given by Ron Lindsay at a “Women In Secularism” conference:

And over the same weekend at the Women in Secularism conference in Washington, DC (where a zillion feminists actually were…evidently your god’s aim sucks, Pat), the president and CEO of the Center for Inquiry, Ron Lindsay (the sole male speaker), opened the conference by complaining about a campaign to ask men to listen to women before complaining about women, by telling women to stop telling men to listen to women before complaining about women…at a conference for women, funded by hundreds of women (since attendees forked over the registration fees, they actually paid for the conference). And then he acted like a stock sexist man and hysterically defamed the woman who criticized him for this rather than responding to her actual (calmly presented) arguments. Thus becoming the poster boy for a man who doesn’t listen.

First of all it becomes quite evident that he hasn’t listened to (or read the transcript of) the speech himself. If that was the case, a regular human being with high school level reading comprehension couldn’t have gotten away with that kind of message. But given pasts offences, one shouldn’t be too surprised. Some things are to be considered here. As is often the case when FTB bloggers pull out their massive thesauruses and handbooks of literary devices and smart metaphors, one of the to things being compared is so different from the other that any attempt to compare them fails:

  • People at the conference didn’t die. As Carrier himself concedes, Ron Lindsay didn’t kill anyone. At worst, he hurt some feelings of people who think their personal experiences trump everything else. Tough feces.
  • People in Oklahoma are dead. A non-sexist Tornado killed them. They have been buried alive, not even a week ago. This is, at least, tragic.
  • To elevate a speech given at a relatively unimportant conference and resulting hurt feelings to such a level, and to use them in one breath with a storm that killed people (as a half-sentient, quarter-witty rhetorical device to boot), is asshattery.

TL;DR: They don’t have anything in common. They aren’t even comparable. Dick’s question is stupid.

The rest of his article isn’t that interesting. It’s mostly the squeaky whining of someone who doesn’t get why his opinion about Atheism+ is wrong, and tragically thinks that everyone else is totally wrong instead.

In conclusion: Richard Carrier behaves like a rancid piece of garbage with no sense of proportion that is even fuller of it than his shitty literary output. Oh, and someone who can’t even come up with good metaphors or a cool Nazi comparison^H^H^H^H^H^H^ H^H^H^H^H ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H parallel logic. It’s more desirable to be a C.H.U.D. to be in any way like him.  Another  FTB dudebro who is being given too much compliment in the form of attention.

At least his funny Atheism+ video has been properly downvoted by people who are both less full of themselves and perhaps even also more capable of thinking rationally.

PS: Dick uses ‘hysterically’ in his post. People have been fucked over for less in the latest developments in the atheist/skeptic/secularist non-community.

PPS: Richard Carrier is a human being. Human beings make mistakes. But being a human being is fully compatible with being an asshole, too. To him his detractors are merely ‘humanoid’ nowadays.


PZ Myers: Now with even less skepticism! 10% more confused social justice!

PZ Myers… What is there to say about this lichtgestalt of blog atheism that hasn’t been said in the last two years? I’m inclined to say that everything already has been said, but I’m going to indulge myself in some writing about atheisms favourite hypocrite – just in the way some people might be inclined to nibble on scabs or watch a train wreck unfold without blinking even once. To those familiar with the whole turd goblet that is social justice warrior atheism+ of the kind, not all of this new. Feel free to get up to speed here if that tickles your fancy, or if you want to find out if you are into udder bull crap. Or the downfall of blog non-empires.

Just yesterday, the indefatigable PZ, the myerest among all of the Myers, decided to not be associated with skepticism anymore after listening to a speech given by Jamy Ian Swiss. This earth shattering divorce, only paralleled in magnitude by the collision of two shopping carts in a windy Utah parking lot, has him throwing a teeny weeny tantrum, acting like a petulant child after being robbed of his favourite sand bucket and matching little shovel. Reminding me of the time when he tried to redefine atheism to mean humanism, even if he is not as incorrect here: I think that gods shouldn’t be a taboo from skeptical inquiry in the same way that ghosts, angels and goblins are not taboo, as long as people claiming their existence also claim that their existence would make some sort of measurable difference in the world we live in (hint: this applies to almost all big religions, including moderate Christianity and Islam).

A tantrum (freezepage, also at hxxp:// that includes shitting on people with ordinary jobs that he feels aren’t really on the same level of awesomeness as his own (yay for social justice!):

So don’t call me a “skeptic”. I’ll consider it an insult, like calling a writer a stenographer, a comedian a mime, a doctor a faith healer, a scientist a technician. I’m out.

Oh young human being of irrelevant gender, is he steaming down that track of unwarranted self importance! See what he did there? One of these is not like the other, and unlike our highly scientifically adept sciency scientist you might actually see which it is! One hint: Almost all of them are respectable jobs, some of them even in the field of science. One of them isn’t a proper job at all, typically done by charlatans preying on gullible und understandably fearful people who see faith healing as a last resort, knowing that they will die a horrible death if it weren’t for some sort of wunderkind who will heal them. And it appears to be as if for PZ Myers, professeur exceptionelle, faith healers are to doctors what technicians are to scientists and stenographers are to writers. That is just FUBAR.

Given that PZ is working at a university, perhaps even one where actual research is being conducted (any other kind of “university” not really being deserving of the designation), he should know that people like lab technicians actually run parts of the experiments and aid the process and progress of science in a schooled, expert and sophisticated manner because they are usually very good at what they do. Like the people who just might have helped him getting his PhD by doing some of the work that he was too lazy/busy to do, because he was doing all the thinky work. Since PZ Myers appears to have divorced himself not only from skepticism, but also from conducting actual research, this lapse might be somewhat excusable, this knowledge long having made room for cocktail bar menus and speaking track schedules, the ABC of the international atheist speech jet set (not).

In any case, they will be delighted to know what their merry ‘colleague’ thinks of them, while he giggles and snickers about the silly lowly plebs that are merely good for juggling test tubes and turning centrifuges on, off and on again for him. I don’t know if my impression of his impression of their work is correct, but he gives me enough reasons to think it’s true. It’s this bad-ass attitude that he brings to the table, the back pack filled with cans of online whoopass of the finest kind.

People chose careers for all kinds of reasons. Personal interests, guidance, wealth (or that of their parents), access to learning material (which, with the advent of the internet luckily has become much easier), ambition and ability. As you might think, some of these are often not available and in some cases unreachable. Some people might be unhappy in their jobs, others not. To me, being a stenographer, a mime, a lab technician sounds awesome. If one of my kids could make a living with any of these, I would be proud of them. Heck, even if they couldn’t, I would be. Which is why giving people shit for the honest, useful jobs they do grinds my gears ever so slightly. It exposes a very critical aspect of online justice warriordom:

The total fucking lack of a bit of class consciousness.

I don’t consider myself to have socialistic or marxist ambitions. I usually avoid the word class at all, because it tends to put people in bins that are often useless and demeaning, even though some might wear them with pride. But the idea that everyone is a blank slate at birth, especially when it comes to economic affairs, is rubbish. So not being a class A++ academic at a prestigious institute of learning like PZ Myers is no shame in any way. Not all people will pull this off, for various reasons. Working there as a lab technician, gardener, secretary, janitor, administrator, accountant, cafeteria clerk etc.. is no shame. Shaming people who do these important jobs, telling them that it’s an insult to be associated or compared to them, is a fucking shame.

Here you have a guy with enough financial backing to live in his own house, happily married, highly educated, jetting around the country and continents, getting drunk on conventions, asking women from the stage without any hint of innuendo to have sex with him. Who basically shits all over people who don’t happen to be writers, or doctors, comedians or scientists like him. Who at the same time, laments the privilege he possesses, but doesn’t give too much of a damn about when it comes to people who he thinks as his lessers, or do not fit into his favourite-victim-of-unjustices-others-perpetrate-but-not-me-bin.

As you can see, being a bigot and a hypocrite at the same time isn’t that difficult. Who wants to hear that kind of crap from a fart in the wind like PZ Myers anymore?


A Fellow Fart in the Wind

H/T to: The Slymepit/Periodic Table of Swearing. An asylum with inmates who have demonstrated that the outside really is crazier than the inside.